Interview with Dan Pink: Part 1

We’re sure most, if not all, of you know of best-selling author, speaker, and awesome thinker: Dan Pink.  His newest book, The Adventures of Johnny Bunko: The Last Career Guide You’ll Ever Need, is a phenomenal hit that we enjoyed very much.  We first met Dan when he was part of our book tour for Why Work Sucks, and we made an instant connection.  He’s unlocking new thinking about the track we take to get into the business world and asking the question we love to ask: Why have we been doing things the way we’ve been doing them?  His advice is straightforward, fun, and we love it.  So here it is - a little back and forth with Dan Pink…enjoy.

C&J: You’ve written some very thought-provoking books in the last decade, but nothing quite like Johnny Bunko, your latest piece.  Why did you write it?  We want the real version of why you wrote it, not the media-trained version.

DP: Ha!  I’m flattered that you think I even have a media-trained version.  The overarching reason is pretty simple.  I thought it was a project that would be interesting to do, that was timed right to the market, and that might help a few people.

The more specific reasoning behind it is twofold.  First, I spent two months last year in Japan studying the manga industry.  Comics in Japan are pretty amazing.  They’re ubiquitous - in every convenience store, in subway stations, gobbling up entire floors of bookstores.  And you can find manga for just about every topic - not just ninjas and high school romance, but everything from time management to politics to history to investing.  Meanwhile, manga was becoming extremely popular here in America.  But nobody was creating it for all ages or on topics.  So I thought: Why no use this incredibly powerful expressive form to reinvent the business book?

Second, I began to think about the role of books in a world where people have so many other sources of information.  Think about careers.  All the tactical career information - what keywords to put in a resume, what questions to anticipate on an interview, etc. - were available online.  Putting that sort of info in a printed book didn’t make much sense.  But I did think there was value to readers in creating books that offered the sort of insights that couldn’t be Googled - strategic, big picture advice.  That’s what I tried to do by building the book around six key strategic lessons.

C&J: Yes, the lessons!  We have two favorites.  The first is “There is no plan”.  This is a bit unsettling (as in, “Did you say NO PLAN??!!”), but very important.  How do we come to terms with the fact that, as Diana (the super cool guide we wish we all had) puts it, “X might lead to W and W might lead to the color blue and the color blue might lead to a chicken quesadilla?”

DP: Let’s take a step back.  What I - er, Diana - means is that people make decisions for two kinds of reasons.  Instrumental reasons are when we do something because we think it’s going to lead to something else.  Example: We major in a subject not because we like it, but because we think it’ll help us land a job upon graduation.  Fundamental reasons are when we do something because we want to do it.  Example: We take a job - even though we have no idea where it will lead - because it allows us to do interesting things with great people.  The point here is that instrumental reasons simply don’t work.  It’s too tumultuous out there.  The people who really flourish are those who make career decisions for fundamental reasons.

Now, here’s where it gets tricky.  Making decisions for fundamental reasons means you have to live with a certain amount - sometimes a huge amount - of ambiguity.  Is that easy?  No way.  But in this situation, as in so many others, you have to have a follow-up question: Compared to what?  It’s clear that from both a personal and professional perspective, dealing with real ambiguity is far more effective than embracing a false sense of clarity.  Just ask the folks at Lehman Brothers.  Or Bear Stearns.  Or Enron.  Or…you get the idea.

C&J: So we have to ask - is the Johnny character based on anyone you know?

DP: No.  But he is like many of us - someone who’s struggling to figure things out and find his place in the world.  And Johnny’s not supposed to be me either.  However, in some ways, the book is a letter to my younger self.  It reveals a few of the things I know now that I wish I’d known 25 years ago.

Stay tuned for Part 2 of our interview with Dan, where he reveals more about the six lessons and the main reasons he thinks companies need to focus on attracting and retaining Gen Y, and start proactively addressing productivity concerns…

Posted in Miscellaneous